Future of Nix-Routers.

Remember this is a 1.44Mb floppy disk router, space is limited.

Postby wsx » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:06 am

Hi,
I am new for FREESCO and my english bad, so sorry ;)

1. I fink 1.44mb is not a brend size of routers in 21st century and 1.44mb limit just stopping project for evolution.

2. More than 80%(or highter) of networks using dynamic routing protocols. But in documentation of FREESCO I didn't found paragraph about OSPF, IS-IS or BGP.

and last:

3. Will FREESCO Supports VPN and IPSec ?


p.s. Also I would to help you with developing.
Thx for this product.
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Postby TalkingToes » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:03 am

Hi,
1) Flame wars are not encouraged. ;) Freesco just keeps getting more features each release. The 1.44 Meg floppy is a common useable size. 1.68Meg is not widely recognized.

2) NAT is not really designed for large network routing. Bridging works (never tried it), but that's not what you asked about. If you need 1 internet connection to many users behind your router, version 0.3.4 does this very well. If you need 2 connections to the internet, well, that's beyond my knowledge.

3) Yes, it can do a VPN, via PPTP. IPSec is not yet possible (yet? good luck!).

Freesco is very well suited for home / small business use. It has served my household well for the last 5+ years. (v027 was a new release!). I have learned much about linux playing with the minimal set of instructions available, and how to expand Freesco into doing things it was never designed to do ( <a href='http://webpages.mr.net/bobz/ttyquake/' target='_blank'>ttyQuake</a>, <a href='http://www.cs.duke.edu/~reynolds/cqcam/' target='_blank'>webcam</a>, <a href='http://www.pugo.org:8080/' target='_blank'>GhostScript based web server</a>).

Hope you learn what Freesco is good for, and how it is best used in your situations.

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Postby knud-ch » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:25 am

With all respect to that work which is done on the freesco project !

I will support the argument about time is runing out for the "floppy" size limitation.

But I will also strongly support the simplicity of freesco and to stay with the goal of router/firewall task.

Knud
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Postby wsx » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:13 am

Ok, OK, But what about BGP and OSPF ?
For example, I am using OSPF in my Home network. Yes, I have at my flat few routers: 1 Cisco 2600-series router and few Unix-Routers.
For example "mikrotik" is very good router-os based on Linux Kernel with OSPF, BGP, NAT, PPPoE...But it is comercial.

I fink compile "quagga" or "zebra" on FREESCO is a simple work?
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Postby G-Man » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:02 am

simply grab any full LiNUX distro, and install it on HD, now you have your router, Freesco is a floppy based NAT, that suports addons made by users, its real and only limit is the fact that it uses the verry old kernel 2.0.39 (or similar) and thus lacks most new features of LiNUX and can thus not use some things as those built for new kernels.

The size limit of freesco to 1.44MB is incorrect, as you can move freesco from floppy to a HD in the in floppy menu so space is not a issue. there is a thread here on forum on how to move freesco to a CD-ROM and boot from that, 9.1gig on DVD and 700Meg on CD last i checked and that is alot more space then a full linux uses that is a complete SB server...

makeing a LiNUX nat/router out of a newer distro is quite simple as most of the things are there from start... then simply add what you need.

Freesco is great for what its intended for, if you need more options then go another path simply as you will need something beefier then a 386 that freesco runs on...
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Postby knud-ch » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:41 am

To G-man:

"Take a full dist..."

Yes but that is exactly not what I want....adapting etc...

I want a router/firewall with remote administration focused on a network appliance.
Easy to setup and manage

Space...CDRom/DVD....
Yes but kernel is still 2.0.x and so on....

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Postby effo » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:52 pm

Jump over to <a href='http://distrowatch.com' target='_blank'>http://distrowatch.com</a> and search for firewall distros. Right now there are 18 distros in that category. Maybe some of them will suite your needs?
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Postby G-Man » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:24 pm

as linux aint windows a full distro dont mean you have to install everything, only install tha basic tty system + firewall and its tools and you are done = 100megs
i have this running paralell to freesco as freesco dont run some things im useing
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Postby Thasaidon » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:27 pm

Just remember,
Freesco is designed to be "A single FLOPPY router" , with BASIC NAT (Network Address Translation).
And since it is designed to run on a floppy, there is no room for aditional things like BGP, OSPF and other stuff.
Allthough I am amazed as to what Lightning manages to add with each new release :P

Anyway, Freesco is a basic router, so if you want the fancy stuff, you need to pay the price ;)
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Postby knud-ch » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:52 am

effo wrote: Jump over to <a href='http://distrowatch.com' target='_blank'>http://distrowatch.com</a> and search for firewall distros. Right now there are 18 distros in that category. Maybe some of them will suite your needs?

I made a quick look on theses dist..


And no...to complicated...no remote...


To Thasasaidon:
Yes and a great thanks to Lightning and anyone else who are contributing.

But basic question:

Is time runing out for the "single floppy" concept ?

Not for the Freesco concept !

There are more pc's which do not have floppy drive and even not a floppy ctrl....I have one.
It is a VIA EPIA Eden...perfect for freesco..low power..fanless small etc..is in a small enclosure of size of 1/2 shoe box powered by a notebook powersupplies.

I know this is a sensitive issue !

With all respect to the work which has be done.

Knud
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Postby Thasaidon » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:19 am

Is time runing out for the "single floppy" concept ?

Well, I don't know.
I still have a lot of old hardware laying around, and all with floppy drives.
So in my case, if my Freesco machine dies, I can replace hardware in an instance ;)

I do agree that most new hardware doesn't come with a floppy, but why buy a brand new "over the top" system for Freesco, when you can get old hardware (pentium 1 and 2) for allmost nothing?

As for Freesco ever beeing modified to run fom a cd (or dvd)?
There allready is a "spin-off" version of Freesco. Do a search on the forum to find it.
But as for the complete Freesco project...
What I understand from Lightning is that it will not happen any time soon.
However, maybe in time he will change his mind if the need for Freesco on cd should become more pressing.

Just remember that Lightning is (for now) the only one developing Freesco,
and this entire project is based on volunteers who dedicate their spare time to it.
Unlike a lot of other distro's.

On a personal note, I could have replaced Freesco for one of the Cisco routers I have laying around at home. Which at one point I had to do to connect to work. Lucky me, they found another way for me to connect and I replaced the Cisco with Freesco again.
Why?
Because I just love the simple concept of Freesco and the "simplicity" in running and maintaining it. But most of all because Freesco does what I need it to do. Basic routing and provinding security from the "big bad internet" ;)
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Postby G-Man » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:55 am

knud-ch wrote: To G-man:

"Take a full dist..."

Yes but that is exactly not what I want....adapting etc...

I want a router/firewall with remote administration focused on a network appliance.
Easy to setup and manage

take as example the full distro SUSE 9.x
Install a minimal Network system of the CD/DVD
Add things that you need/want
It have a builtin firewall, enable it, open the ports you want opend for services that you are shareing, use the configure script for it then hand edit the config file it makes to your likeing (more options here if you need them then there is in script to make it easyer)
you now have a IP tables NAT/Firewall that have USB suport, a new kernel and suport for most hardware out-of-the-box.

When you are satisfied with the setup, use G4L (ghost for linux) and make a image of the install, then put it on a CD together with G4L, now you have a fast restore CD.

Takes me 5min to install from suse with that configuration, its not verry hard.
Other distros proboly not harder to setup as basic FW/NAT as most features are default in distros...
Freesco is great, for a totally free basic FW/NAT with the ability of addons and useing free computers that you basically find in the trash as obsolete, if you want more then this then you need a full distro install with its newer kernel and some nolige of networks or you find some one to do it for you with nolige that you trust, once installed it shuld not yeld any problems for years.
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Postby Lightning » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:51 am

As is well stated above FREESCO is not always the best choice, nor do I consider it the last choice for anyone. It is designed to be as simple as possible so that everyone can configure there own router and get aquinted with Linux. Most users stay with FREESCO just for those specific reasons as well as the community and support. But a few have to move on to get some extra function that FREESCO can not provide. To which I say that there are LOTS of options using other distributions and FREESCO has a very small corner located in the single floopy end of those distributions and we have no plans on trying to compete by making FREESCO bigger.
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Postby knud-ch » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:13 am

To G-man:

I have not tried Suse 9.x

But does it have remote administration(graphical) ?

Do I have to chose amongst a million different not relvant things(for router appl.) ?

Does it have a feature which easy can store setup out on a removble media ?

And yes maybee you (and maybee also me) can make a image to cdrom...but does it not involve a messing around with other packagede ?

The basic idea of Freesco is good !
Self contain...setup/backup
Focused features on network application
Designed for monitorless use.
Simplicity

To Lightning
I do not have a specific wish to get aquinted with Linux, but with Freesco because it serves me well a long way.
(And no I am not comming from WIN world...its OS/2)


I think it is resonable to ask the basic question about locked to "floppy"
It does not mean that I (other) think that Freesco should jump to full blown Linux installation.

And we do not have agree on that issue !

And it does not prevent me(others) to work with Freesco on the "floopy" base.

And with all respect and thanks to that work which has been put into Freesco.

:rolleyes:

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Postby Lightning » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:50 am

I think it is resonable to ask the basic question about locked to "floppy"
It does not mean that I (other) think that Freesco should jump to full blown Linux installation.

And we do not have agree on that issue !

Hehe, well I am glad you feel that way. There have actually been many before who wanted just a litle more than a floppy could provide and a lot less than a full distro. But I am at present going to have to agree to disagree. Of course this does not mean that changes will never happen, it just means they are not currently in developement.
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